Part 1 – About aggregation sites and illegitimate claims of private property over hentai
So, people – let’s start off with the most important part of this essay, which I adequately marked in my flowchart as ‘aggregation sites making money off other people’s work’. I think you can guess what all this will be about.
First, let me clarify what aggregation sites are, for those of you that never heard of that term before. Aggregation sites are websites that aim to offer a condensed library of works of a specific nature, in this case, hentai manga and doujinshi; ‘having it all in one place’, to keep it short.
Aggregation sites are an excellent way to spread your work if you’re with a translation group. Sites like that often have a reader base running in the upper ten thousands of hits per day, sometimes in the hundred thousands. One example comes to mind where visitor numbers have been a few MILLIONS a day (most likely than not the same few guys hitting F5 all over the place, but whatever). Your work will be read by thousands of people, which results in an increase in your group’s popularity – or so you might think. People never read credits pages anyway…
This all comes at a price though. First thing to note is that several aggregation sites have only been brought to life as a quick money machine; just as in non-H manga online reading sites, most aggregation sites were not intended to spread the love of the works on those sites – it’s about cold, hard cash. Of which translators don’t ever see a single penny, unless the money flows back into commissions (which is something only very few sites do).
The means by which most of the admins earn money are ads (shitloads of them) and paying file hosters. It works like this – the admins upload to several different mirrors, all of which pay per download. It’s not much of a stretch to think that with the massive numbers of hits these sites get, they will make a killing that will far exceed the costs – aka profit. And I can’t ponder it enough, all they do is uploading stuff, without doing any of the ‘actual’ work involved with scanlation. Should we treat that as a ‘compensation for uploading and aggregating hentai works’?
The answer is simply no. While a few of them recycle their revenue by funding commissions to give something back to the community without which they wouldn’t even be able to get any cash in the first place, most of them do not and have only installed their sites for the intention of making money off the work of others. Their ‘work’ is only marginal, to say it nicely. The relation between unpaid volunteer work worth multiple hours and cashing in big time for a few minutes of uploading scanlations is simply flying out the window right there.
One very peculiar case are aggregation sites that outright steal scanlations. Now, while scanlations are free, public goods (albeit derived from illegitimate copyright violations), quite a number of aggregation sites try to turn a profit on keeping the fact that the scanlations they offer are publicly available for free elsewhere. This basically means that they SELL scanlations they do not own (because of the nature of scanlations being a free, public good in all cases, which I am about to prove), although the transfer of property of one owner to the next requires the seller to have private property to the good which he sells. The scanlation groups, like in all other cases of their works being uploaded to aggregation sites, do not get a single buck for their work that is shamelessly being exploited here. The only one benefit aggregation sites offer scanlation groups is also nil – that is, the publicity, because if the ‘customer’ knew that work X was done by group Y, he would not shell out the cash to be ‘allowed’ to look at it.
Another peculiarity are those aggregation sites that sponsor commissions, but do not offer them to the public for free. This is a blatant case of illegitimate private ownership over goods that are supposed to be public (the very nature of pirated goods).
While I am an anarchist communist at heart and despise the very concept of private property at its core, let us, for the sake of the argument, look at a capitalist view at private property, namely that of the great Hans-Herman Hoppe.
Everyone is the proper owner of his own physical body as well as of all places and nature-given goods that he occupies and puts to use by means of his body, provided that no one else has already occupied or used the same places and goods before him. This ownership of “originally appropriated” places and goods by a person implies his right to use and transform these places and goods in any way he sees fit, provided that he does not thereby forcibly change the physical integrity of places and goods originally appropriated by another person. In particular, once a place or good has been first appropriated, in John Locke’s words, by “mixing one’s labor” with it, ownership in such places and goods can be acquired only by means of a voluntary—contractual—transfer of its property title from a previous to a later owner.
The interesting bits are in bold. Nature-given goods is a nice term. Would you consider pirated goods to be nature-given? Simply there, lying on the ground for you to take up and shape as you see fit, to turn it into a good? While appropriating hentai manga unto yourself by translating them would indeed constitute making them your private property if they were nature-given, this is not the case for pirated ones; for, as Mr Hoppe points out, property can only be transferred by voluntary contract from one owner to another, which is most obviously not the case.
Therefore, even though they have put their own work into it, the goods which they sell are not their private property. They are still free, public goods, albeit illegitimate ones – the pirates (in this case, scanners) could not transfer property unto themselves through the act of piracy and made them a public good (with or without intending to do so – fact is, it is publicly available to no cost) – so, in return, even though you may have infused this good with surplus value (not in the Marxian sense), it is not yours for the reasons stated above.
For these reasons, any aggregation sites (or anyone else, for that matter) trying to exploit the work of others by selling them or trying to sell goods of which he illegitimately appropriated private property are nothing more than a petty thief; a liar and a scammer.
You might wonder, hell yeah, translators and commissioners (that are not working for those trying to keep scanlations to themselves to sell) are also part of the piracy, why not bash them?
The simple reason is that we DO NOT try to illegitimately claim ownership over stolen goods. On the contrary, we infuse these goods with surplus value for English readers (because it is obvious that, for English readers, ENG>>JP, while the good basically remains the same at its core) and return it back into the pool of free, public, albeit illegitimate goods.
What to do?
I recommend scanlation groups to remain vigilant at all times, and to fight all aggregation sites they deem detrimental to the common good. If you have the means to take their illegitimate property and return it to the pool of public goods, by all means, do so.
Stay strong, brothers.
…aren’t translators stealing from the creators who intended to sell their books? Arguably in a worse way? Fine, I hate repackers, particularly those who fill theis stuff with ads, but it’s not like you have any moral high ground here.
Looks like someone didn’t read to the end.
Did not read the fucking thing.
To counter your argument though, translations do NOT affect the Japanese national market for say, tankoubons in any way (note that I said translations, not scans).
Most scans actually come off Share, a Japanese filesharing network, and scanning is mostly done by Japanese people themselves. There are multiple reasons why translations do not hurt the Japanese market, but I’m too lazy to argue with someone who’s apparently a dumbfuck who wouldn’t read it anyway.
And if you were actually an ‘anarchist communist’, you have no grounds for complaint anyway, because the effort you put into scanlating is not yours, it’s the community’s.
PC troll is PC and troll, also full of shit. The effort put into scanlating belongs to the one who scanlated it, period. There’s no such shit as “the community’s”, don’t presume to speak for others, faggot.
The effort (in the truest sense of the word) is still fucking mine because I do the work. I share my shit for free with everyone else, so I do not claim ownership over anything.
You can’t demand anything because if I were not to do the translating, who would? You? It’s all a give and take process and all I ask for is that people do not turn a profit from my work, much less try to steal it.
Also seems like you have no fucking clue about communism.
Great post! Strange that I posted a plan for ragemanga.com and how it can better serve the translation and commission community.
You know, that’s why I fucking love the concept behind ragemanga. It’s a community-driven site that actually cares about the content it offers (since it doesn’t try to pamper those mainstream faggots), and it is non-profit. I wish more sites were like that.
Actually it is more than nonprofit, I hope to somehow get a way to connect commissioners to translators and translators to editors. Then on the site they already have a distribution model. Everybody gets enough of the pie to keep them continuing the work so they don’t have to dig into their own pocket so much.
Today I am working on nothing but the site to add more content.
Can I call you ‘comrade’ now?
If I may add my two cents as to why translators are not in the same boat as an aggregator site.
A translator is not selling the book, access to the book, or anything similar. The translator is selling their TIME and SKILL in translating the book. Whether the book is illegally obtained or otherwise is totally moot, it’s not the translator’s problem.
Piracy is a totally different and separate problem. Providing scanned doujinshi to an English speaking audience is technically piracy, but given that the impact on the original copyright owner’s income is small to none I don’t really feel bad about it at all.
Aggregator sites are about the same as selling water in my eyes. If you knew where to go, you’d go and get it yourself. You’re paying for convenience. I’ve got no problem with that, until the sites start trying to tell you that there’s no water in a 100 mile radius and they’re the only shop. It’s dishonest.
I never really cared much for things like this until I actually got into translating, and reading this shed more light as to how things work regarding these aggregator sites.
Strictly speaking, ‘piracy’ involves a willful act of selling off proprietary goods through unprotected channels that puts both the buyer and seller at risk of legal culpability. In short, it means it’s an act that involves BOTH the actions of a seller of “illegal” goods, and the buyer of the illegal goods, as well. Many people forget the latter part of this distinction, which is also another part of the problem that many people easily overlook.
And yet, Mr. ‘random’ has kindly showed us that such people exit – brainless retards that don’t know shit about how the community works, and are happy just knowing they got a fine deal at reading manga for free. They don’t care about the specifics, the legalities, or the work involved – it’s there, so they have no complaints.
And it’s aggregator sites that feed on this ignorance. In the end, it’s the scanslators that look like bitches for whining about not being given proper due or having their work “stolen” from them because it was made for free, and some douche is making money out of it. Though it’s easy to say scanslators are just that stupid for not making money out of their works in the first place, that’s totally beside the point. We translate BECAUSE we love what we read, and we want other people to enjoy it along with us. It’s our values that tell us it’s simply WRONG to charge people for our services, because that’s placing ownership over something that is a public good to begin with (if another douche tries to counter this statement, please re-read nash’s post, or I’ll stuff you with a tl;dr – shut the fuck up you retard).
So yeah… I totally agree with Nash. If money matters were to be tossed out the window, I think one of the only reasons I keep translating is because I always enjoy hearing at least one person say “thank you” for what I do.
Good reply, I have to add though that host a site is not cheap. My hosting company called me today and said I was using 500% of the server. How that is possible I don’t know.
Anyway I want to add is that there are aggregator sites that are not out to exploit. Ragemanga.com is still new but we are getting new users and new functions everyday. It is exciting especially since I have no need to make money from the site, just enough to cover the costs. I am adding functions for each user to have their own profile and blog. Then they will not have to worry about getting thei site banned or blocked. Since the site main niche is manga that other aggregator sites stick their nose up at we have the possibility of creating a real community on a site that is not shitty like the rest.
Ragemanga.com will be on it’s own dedicated server soon so it can support blogs and a social network. Ragemanga.com is nonprofit and all property is secured in a trust. I want it a place for translators and editors to publish their work directly to the community and it is the community through a mix of democratic and sortition governance get representatives to run the site.
Funding for the site has yet to be determined and is up to the managing representatives, but I thought one way is an eBay style model. We can offer a place for translators and commissioners to come together. Translation groups can put up tanks to get funded by multiple commissioners and commissioners can get bids from translators for their work. A credit system can be installed for payments for the fundings so that we can skip the need for translators to accept multiple payment areas or for commissioners to be forced to use the translators funding source of choice.
So I hope translators, editors and readers come to ragemanga and contribute, put up a profile, make their groups, and utilize other functions such as the ticket system to keep track of the translation and editing process.
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